Toby Bohn

This intro is a little more on the personal side, as Toby and I have known each other for years and I consider my friendship with him to be an important piece of my life. We met in our early teens as we were just beginning to traipse awkwardly through adolescence as a couple of unapologetic nerds (or maybe I should just speak for myself?). Our priorities were books, obsessing over movies and anime, writing stories together and laughing without restraint at inside jokes no one else would understand. For a time, we were attached at the hip. But as we moved through high school, our sense of identity began to feel more and more critical and confusing. The friendship of our youth began to ache beneath the weight of growing up and, as it happens to so many friends peering out into the unknown, we went our separate ways after graduation. Toby moved to Hampton Roads for college and would remain there for close to ten years. Though we only kept in touch and saw each other intermittently, I never felt like I was talking to a stranger. We could, almost without fail, pick up where we left off and that warm spark of familiarity would rekindle. At the end of the day, I have Toby to thank for being the kind of radically intelligent presence I needed during those sensitive teenage years. He encouraged a love of books, writing and free thinking. He introduced alternatives and perspective. Without that kind of influence, who’s to say where my sensitive little brain might have ended up.

Toby moved to Richmond only within the last six months and I was excited to bring him into the project, thinking that as a fresh resident of Richmond and with his background of LGBTQ activism, we would have plenty to talk about. We met at his apartment that he shares with his partner and sat in his living room - a small but well-decorated area where just a few feet to the left sat boxes of belongings still waiting to be unpacked. We goofed off for a little while, as I fumbled around setting up equipment and snacking on grapes and cookies (ever the gracious host!) At the end of it, I felt fantastic about our conversation and I hope you find it as inspiring as I did.

Meet Toby
new RVA resident and advocate for the LGBTQ community.

In which we talk about zine-making, approaching life with compassion, the pitfalls of call-out culture, ways for allies to unobtrusively show their support and looking at inspiration as a non-requirement to get things done.

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You just moved here from the Hampton Roads / VA beach area. What inspired you to make the move to Richmond?

Well, there's two answers to that question. There's the polite answer and then there's the real answer. The polite answer is that I've been living in Hampton Roads for about ten years and I was a little bored with it as an area. It's kind of unusual because it's six or seven cities and they all [come] together and form a mega city but all the areas are different. It [is] heavily Military, so a lot of the population is transient, and it just never really felt like home to me. So, I wanted to try something different. 

The other reason would be that my dad died about a year ago. My mom lives nearby, and my brother lives in Richmond city. So I really just wanted to be closer to my family after that happened. It reminded me that life is short and I wanted to be near them. 

What are your initial thoughts about Richmond as a home? What do you love most about it so far?

It's a unique place. I think one of the main things I like is the architecture. I like that most of the buildings are older and have been repurposed. I think I read that Richmond has the largest square footage of Victorian homes still intact and in existence in the United States, which is really cool. 

I like how much nature there is. Someone described Richmond as an Urban Forest, which I thought was interesting. I like that there’s actual trees outside of my apartment. And there’s a lot of artists, fun things and restaurants... just a lot of culture. I think that was one of the main things that I didn’t like about Hampton Roads. There are all these different places mashed together and I didn’t feel like it had an identity. I feel like Richmond definitely has one. 

What are some of your favorite places to hang out?

Well, I’m a big nature person. I’m not hard core [about] nature but I like the idea. So, I like that there are a lot of parks. When we moved to Richmond, we were looking at the Forest Hill neighborhood because we like Forest Hill park. So, we’ve been exploring that. Recently, I got to go to Circuit and it was super fun!

Tell me a little bit about yourself. What do you do? What do you aspire to do?

That is an interesting question. Right now, I tend to self-effacingly say that I don’t do anything important. I work in retail currently and I’m also a student. I have a degree that I need to finish up someday. So, I’m not really affiliated with a particular profession at this time... But now I’m wondering if I even want to do that. I think in American culture, we get fixated on your career as your identity and I’m exploring the idea of work just being a means to pursue other things I want to do. I’m not sure I really want my work identity to be my identity. 

What are some of your hobbies?

I do a lot of different things! The main thing I’m into right now is fiber arts. So, I do a lot of cross stitch and embroidery. I’m slowly teaching myself how to sew because it turns out it’s really complicated. I would like to get to a point where I’m making all of my own clothes. I have a co worker who does that. She makes everything she wears and looks fantastic! So, that’s a goal.

I’ve picked up hand lettering recently. I found a vintage book from the 1950’s for hand lettering signs, so it’s a lot like calligraphy, but it’s less decorative. It’s an art form that people would do for commercial purposes. So, I’m really getting into that.

I’m also really into zines. I have a couple that I’m working on and I’m still playing with them right now. I’m still developing them. I have this weird specific interest, which is – I collect antique photographs of babies from the early 1900s. So, I’m making a zine that’s a collection of them. That started when I was antiquing and I found this photo of a baby from, like, 1930 and he’s sitting on the grass in this ornate baby gown. His eyes are closed and so it looks like someone abandoned their sleeping baby on the lawn. In part, you’re like, “what is happening here?” It kind of looks like a little sleepy fairy baby and that’s just where they live, on the grass.

So, something about that really fascinated me. Photography wasn’t as common back then and there weren’t as many candid photographs as we have today. So, there’s that element. And part of it is just a fascination of ... who did these people become and what did they do with their lives? Like, the only thing I know about this baby is that it was born in 1930 and his name was Bobby. You have no context for these photos, all you know is that someone really loved this child and wanted to document it. That’s all you know. So, I find that really interesting.

So, that’s one zine… which I don’t know if anyone would ever buy that! 

The other Zine I’m doing is a bit more… I don’t want to say serious… but it’s about my Dad’s death, the feelings I have about that and the things I never got to say to him. So, I’m collecting photos from the time period of his birth – he was born in 1950 – so I’m collecting photos from the 1950s and I’m going to put them in the zine about our relationship. That’s another one I don’t know if anyone would want to buy it… but I’m making it anyway as an exploratory practice.

I love that a lot. I also love zines but I’ve never tried to make one. It reminds me so much of the [online] journaling we used to do back in the day. It’s just so personal and raw.

I like taking these photographs and quotes from books I’ve read and assembling them into a final project, which is why I like zines so much. Like you were saying – it’s so raw and it’s so personal and you’re turning it into this art form that’s a means of expression. It’s good for someone like me because I’ve never really considered myself artistic. I’m not particularly good at drawing or photography or sculpting or things that people typically consider art… but I feel like with zines that doesn’t matter. Literally anyone can make a zine. So, I don’t feel pressure in that form, I can just explore.

What have been the most joyous and fulfilling times of your life?

For that, I would say right now. The present moment. I’ve struggled with anxiety and depression since I was a teenager and it’s affected my life in a profound way. I don’t want to say I’m recovering from it… maybe I’m perpetually in eternal recovery, I don’t know. But my early to mid twenties was probably one of the darkest periods of my life. I had those issues that were flaring up, I had no means of understanding it and I was self isolating. At first, I was ignorant as to how strongly they were affecting me and then once I realized what they were, I didn’t know how to deal with them. So, that was a dark and confusing period of my life. 

Then, other life events happened, such as my dad passing away last year. So, as of this moment, a lot of things have some into focus. I’ve been in therapy, so I understand more about how to deal with these mental illnesses. The experience of losing my dad… it refocused my priorities. For instance, that’s part of what inspired my move here and it’s informing the choices I make from now on.

There’s a positive sense to Nihilism in that you learn that all of these things we tell ourselves are important… they’re not important at all. I feel like I’ve finally started to learn that lesson and I’m just kind of exploring who I am and what I want to do with my life. I feel like I finally don’t have all that baggage from before, like I’m starting to become a new person who doesn’t care about those types of things. So, right now is a very exciting time for me.

Though you already touched on some dark moments in your life, what would you say was your most challenging experience?

The last couple of weeks of my dad’s life, when he was sick. I had to go visit my family and help take care of him… that was some of the hardest stuff I’ve ever done. After doing that, it kind of re-framed things for me. I was like, “If I can do this… if I can take care of my dying father, then I can do anything.” That’s the hardest thing to have to do. So, after that, I was able to refocus. Things that you think are hard… it’s not that they aren’t difficult, but you can get through them. Everything will be fine.

What are some other things you’ve learned about yourself through these experiences and what lessons have been the most meaningful?

I think another thing I’ve learned that I haven’t mentioned so far, is that [along] with anxiety and depression, I was in several long term relationships that were unhealthy. The first relationship in my early twenties was probably the most destructive. And I moved from that relationship into a relationship with another man … it was a lot better - he was and is a good friend - but ultimately we didn’t mesh romantically. Now, I’m dating a partner who is super fantastic and supportive. I love him so much and he’s a perfect fit... but I had to go through those two relationships first. Something I learned transitioning from each of these relationships and into the relationship I’m in now is that [there were] a lot of things I thought were core parts of my identity… I thought this is who I am. When I wasn’t in a relationship with those people, I realized that that wasn’t who I was. It had a lot to do with that relationship dynamic. 

If you don’t like who you are… the problem isn’t always you. Sometimes the problem is the people that you are living with and associating with. Maybe they’re not bringing the best qualities out of you. Sometimes you have to take a look at your relationships and say are the people in my life uplifting me? Are they encouraging me to grow? Are they supporting me? And if they’re not… it can be worth it to try and foster new relationships and see who you become. Because you might really like the person you are with those people.

What inspires you and how do you stay motivated?

I have been thinking about that and it’s kind of a difficult question. I think I was – similar to everything else I’ve talked about – I was carrying around a lot of ideas about what inspiration looked like, how I should be inspired and I’m learning that a lot of that is bullshit.

I’m [a part of] a lot of fandoms. So, sometimes, just going online and talking to people in those fandoms and going on tumblr and reading what they’re doing... that in and of itself is inspiring. Some people get inspired by listening to music and doing mood boards. That doesn’t work for me. I tried that and it didn’t work. Nothing happens. I just obsess about making my mood board look perfect and that’s not the point of a mood board. 

So. Going online, browsing... definitely reading. I think when I read really good literature that’s engaging and well-written, it’s exciting! Then I want to write my own thing. I would say interacting with other artists and their work is probably the main way I get inspired at this point. It doesn’t happen as often as I would like, but I’m working on it.

I listened to a TED talk by Elizabeth Gilbert (Eat, Pray, Love) where she says that Americans in particular – we tend to have this idea of inspiration as a muse. Something that visits you and you get inspired and you create all these things. The idea that genius is something beyond your control. She basically debunked that and said … rather than waiting for inspiration to hit you, you should just work and accept that sometimes you’re going to be inspired and your work is going to be fantastic and sometimes it’s going to be a slog and you’re going to hate everything. But treat it as a lucky strike or something that you’re anticipating. Don’t treat it as something that’s essential to your process. Just work... and if it happens that you’re inspired – awesome. So, I’ve been trying to go with that… just do things and as I find things that inspire me, to incorporate that more often. But not to make a big deal out of it and not to be a perfectionist.

I understand that even before you moved here, you were participating in LGBTQ advocacy and activities in Richmond. How does the community here compare to where you moved from? 

I don’t want to say [I was] heavily involved… but starting in my early 20s until about two years ago now, I was involved in some way, shape or form with LGBTQ activism. My primary way was that I facilitated a support group at the LGBTQ center in Norfolk for about five or six years. During that time, as a result of moderating a support group, I went to several things in the Richmond area. I went to TIES - which is Transgender Information and Empowerment Summit - and I went to two or three of those in capacity of being a moderator. They also had some separate workshops loosely affiliated with TIES that were about being a community leader and facilitating change in your home environment. 

Throughout all of that, I’m living in Hampton Roads, and VA beach and Norfolk… and my experience of the LGBTQ or queer community there is very different than that of Richmond. I think [since] Richmond is a more condensed, centralized area, the queer community interacts differently. People are more familiar with each other, and there are events that everyone knows about. 

In Hampton Roads, it was very diffused. Some people would be living in Portsmouth and then they would go to Norfolk to the LGBT center so… they would be like, “What’s happening, what’s around here?” and people would be like, “well, I don’t know, I live in VA Beach.” It was more difficult to have a concrete sense of community, in my experience. The LGBT Center in Norfolk was kind of the main gathering place [where] people would go and make contact with each other. There were a few local bars and things too... But in Richmond, it seems like the community is a bit more cohesive. There are more locations and things where people would meet than what I’m used to. So, that’s been interesting. 

Interesting in a good way?

Yeah. I don’t want to seem like I’m talking disrespectfully of the queer community in Hampton Roads at all. Because that’s definitely where I got my start and I know a lot of people there who are excellent people doing really good work. But the main struggle I encountered living as a queer person in Hampton Roads was that I so very rarely saw other people that I recognized as queer. I felt like... “I am the only gay person within a thirty mile radius. I don’t know where any of the other gays are. I don’t know any events.”

I felt isolated in that community. So, by facilitating and working with the LGBT center … that was my personal effort to go and meet other queer people. It’s been refreshing moving to Richmond … like, seeing queer people out in the wild! I felt like I didn’t have that before. Even just seeing more queer people and seeing people with rainbow stickers and businesses that have equality stickers… it’s not that it never happens in Hampton Roads but it’s more of a rarity I think. 

Do you feel as though Richmond is a safe space for the LGBTQ community?

I’ve only been here for about three or four months. So, I don’t want to misspeak. However, I will say that generally I feel more comfortable here than I did in Hampton Roads. It was just a very heteronormative, cis-gender culture there. So, like I said before, I felt a strong need to go to the LGBT center and have my queer time. Here, I feel a lot more comfortable. I don’t feel nearly as isolated and people seem more welcoming and friendly in general. However, there have been a few moments since moving here that I either directly experienced homophobia or suspected it. The other day, I was walking down the street and holding hands with my boyfriend and there was a gentleman on the street performing music and as we passed him, under his breath, he muttered, “disgusting.” So. That’s still an element. That’s why I feel like I can’t give a super strong answer, but homophobia still exists for sure. 

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“Sometimes you have to take a look at your relationships and say are the people in my life uplifting me? Are they encouraging me to grow? Are they supporting me? And if they’re not… it can be worth it to try and foster new relationships and see who you become. ”

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How do you feel about the state of the world for the LGBTQ community?

Speaking generally, I think the average person and society as a whole has progressed. As a teenager in the 2000s, there was not a lot of queer representation in anything… I remember when the original L Word was released and everyone was like, “Holy shit, gay people on TV!” 

Overall, I think the average person is more literate about queer issues, has had more exposure and is a little more evolved. However, the current state of the administration has me very concerned. When 45 was elected, I felt a very distinct sense of dread and fear. 

We are living under a president that has said things about women and racial minorities that, in previous elections and previous generations, would have knocked him out of the running. People would not even consider him as a candidate. And the fact that he was not only considered a candidate but won … I think it’s alarming. There have been several moments since then where that dread returns to me. I read earlier today about the successful defunding of Planned Parenthood. Which, as many people have pointed out, effects not just women but queer people and people in under-served communities everywhere. 

For instance, in Hampton Roads, Planned Parenthood is one of the primary ways Trans people receive hormones. Because there are very few other avenues for that. Many people, when they begin their transition, will go to Planned Parenthood and get that managed there. Which is also really helpful because Planned Parenthood has a sliding income scale and a lot of these individuals can’t afford private health insurance. So, the fact that the defunding has happened [is alarming] because that’s going to have huge community-wide ramifications over time. 

You hear people say things like, “Oh, such-and-such happened, but it’s okay, everything will work out.” And that’s not necessarily true.

The Handmaid’s Tale is really popular right now. And that is a story about people’s rights being incrementally taken away with constant reassurance that everything is going to be fine. Then they end up in this dystopian awful situation. So, I can’t help but be afraid, as a queer person, that that’s where we’re headed. I’m really hoping that’s not true [and that we] become stronger and more tolerant as a society... not more bigoted and hateful. 

The current administration has been very difficult for me … I like to believe in the inherent goodness of people but when you elect a president that says things like, “Grab a woman by the pussy,” and he’s still elected, what does that say about us as a people? I don’t know. “Disappointing” isn’t strong enough of a word for me. When he was elected, it was a shock… because I think everyone prior to that was like, “There’s no way he could win.” Well, he did, so what does that mean?

I think what bothers me the most is that whether you agree with his policies or not … I want to believe that we would treat all human beings with decency. So, when you elect someone who does not treat or speak of others with anything resembling decency… I struggle with that. 

I feel like politics are very polarizing. And I feel like the polarization is growing and getting worse. That’s not what I want. I want people to reach a point in the middle and I don’t know if that’s going to happen.

Correct me if this is not accurate, but I feel that there is sometimes vitriol around straight, cis-gender people getting involved in pride and activism. How do you feel about that? Is there a right way and a wrong way for allies to show support and not get in the way?

I would say that’s accurate. I think there is tension about what allies should be involved in and how. I personally don’t have an issue with it... I think it’s important. Sometimes allies mean well but they get in the way. 

So, my primary recommendation is: as an ally, don’t make it about you. Which sounds obvious! But, for instance, when I’ve been to TIES, a large segment of the attendees were allies of a trans or queer person. There would be parents coming with their transgender child because there are workshops and they want to learn. But then they’ll get up and spend 15 or 20 minutes talking about how hard things are for their child and how awful everything is… They’re using their child’s oppression as a means to get attention, essentially. I think their motivations are good. They want to support their child. They’re attending this event with them… which 10 or 20 years ago may not have even happened. So the spirit is good, but the execution not so much.

Don’t make it about you. Don’t make it about your relationship with the person you know. Literally just be there and be supportive.

Some other suggestions I might have would be to speak up for LGBTQ people where you can. I think that’s something really unique that an ally can bring to the table. By that I mean, use your position as an ally to defend queer people and to challenge other heterosexual, cis-gender people that are not allies. I think when LGBTQ issues come up, as a queer person, if I try to defend that, often I’m perceived as “defending the lifestyle.” By nature of being queer, the words that are coming out of my mouth are nullified. So, if you hear someone say something oppressive or bigoted take a moment to say, “This is not acceptable. Here are ways to treat these people with dignity and respect.”

It’s difficult… I can understand why sometimes people don’t want to do that. They feel unsafe. Well, as a queer person, I feel unsafe all the time. There’s nothing more terrifying than looking around and realizing that no one is going to stand up for you. No one is on your side. Everyone would rather just go home than deal with the situation. So, even if it’s just correcting racist uncle Ben at Thanksgiving, that in and of itself is an amazing gift, so please do that. 

My last suggestion would be to show up and to put it crudely… put your money where your mouth is. It costs nothing to say, “I’m an ally. I have a nephew that’s gay and I totally support gay people.” If you support gay people, then please consider showing up and doing things, whether it’s volunteering at a local queer center, or donating money. When Facebook does the fundraiser thing for your Birthday, pick a queer oriented organization and then actually donate to it. 

Just saying that you don’t hate queer people… thanks! How excellent of you to verbally commit to not being bigoted. I would prefer something else also.

The thing is, you don’t have to be perfect. Any time you’re involved with a cause that’s not based out of your own experience, you’re going to make mistakes. Like, me as a white person - I don’t know what it’s like to be a person of color in the United States. So, me getting involved in causes that involve people of color … I’m sure I have done and will do embarrassing things. But you have to try and accept that some things you do will be wrong and that’s okay. What matters is the intent and the follow-through. Perfection doesn’t matter. So… just relax.

Some activists are very passionate and they are so driven by that passion that they don’t want to accept compromise or that people can be flawed. I understand the motivation behind that because accepting mediocrity in the place of excellence is how certain institutions have been able to maintain. People saying, “This is good enough.” So, I understand that passion. 

“There’s nothing more terrifying than looking around and realizing that no one is going to stand up for you. ”

I think sometimes that comes across as being harsh and vitriolic but … that’s not the kind of activist I am. That just doesn’t match with me personally. I see the need for that kind of activism and I respect it. But I very much try, for myself, to come from a place of gentleness and understanding. In my experience, sometimes people who genuinely mean well get pushed away because they’ve done something wrong. When I was moderating the support group and I would attend other support groups… I would see instances where someone would say something with good intent but it would come across super bad. Then everyone would pile on top of them and you can literally see them shrink back into themselves and they would never come again because they felt they had made this horrible mistake and like they weren’t qualified to be there. That’s not necessarily true… what you did was wrong and someone needs to talk to you about it… but that doesn’t mean you’re an awful person and you can never do anything good. We’ve all messed up. You messed up, but here’s how you can do better next time. I try to exemplify that as a spirit because I know I‘ve messed up a lot and I don’t think it’s fair of me to judge other people for having messed up.

Something I’ve been thinking a lot about lately is internet culture because, particularly in what’s termed the “social justice warrior” realm… someone will make a mistake and they’ll apologize. (And I’m speaking very generally and hypothetically here) but then people on twitter will be like, “Don’t forget that [they] said this racist thing that one time so their apology doesn’t really mean anything. Because they are clearly internally racist.” I understand the need for that… because it’s trying to highlight that [it shouldn’t be pushed] under the rug. Like, you can’t say “I’m sorry slavery happened” and that makes it better. That doesn’t solve the hundreds of years of systemic racism that we now have to deal with.

I feel like we live online in a call out culture. You do something wrong and everyone is in a rush to declare you as wrong and distance themselves from you as a result of making a mistake. I think that’s a really tough world to live in. We’re all going to make mistakes. I’m an old enough millennial that I remember life before the internet and I often think, thank god I wasn’t a teenager when twitter existed. Because I would have said so many things that were completely awful and wrong and then anyone would be able to pull it up and be like, remember that time Toby said that thing? He’s awful! And so with that, I try to give people a little forgiveness. People do stupid things, then it’s on the internet forever and we all hate them forever. I don’t feel like that’s productive or useful because what does that solve? It doesn’t solve anything. It doesn’t create the change that we want. It just creates an environment where people are yelling at each other in an attempt to be less wrong.

The internet has done some really great things. I definitely wouldn’t want to live without the internet. We’re all hooked into it at this point, it’s done. But the call out culture aspect is something I really struggle with. I feel like the internet is well-suited for that with the anonymity and ubiquitous of it … I like a lot of things that the internet provides but it’s created an environment that in some ways can be really hostile to change and growth.